Pete Waterman may be best known across the globe as one-third of the Stock, Aitken and Waterman team responsible for so many of the Hit Factory successes of the mid to late 1980s but this Cheshire resident has another passion: trains.
This month Pete and his Railnuts team are bringing Making Tracks 3 to Chester Cathedral for a limited time only, creating a truly immersive and interactive experience for all the family. I sat down with Pete at his home in Whitley to talk about the exhibition, his entrepreneurial childhood, favourite Cheshire haunts and the artists he’s worked with.
Tell us about your childhood
I was born in January 1947 in Coventry where me, my mum, dad and sister all lived with my grandad, who was a grumpy old sod. I loved him though, in fact, he bought me my first train set back in 1948 and I’ve never been without one since.
What triggered your fascination with trains?
We lived next to a train line and my grandad would walk me up to the bridge to watch them go by. He had served in the war but had been pensioned off as he had been injured so he got a decent pay-out. Me and my mate Keith would walk everywhere with him for miles, always walking behind him; he would never let us walk next to him. By 1955 I had a bike and would cycle to the station and by the age of nine I would travel alone on the train visiting other stations like Rugby, Wolverhampton, Banbury and even Euston. I loved the experience of travelling on the train and the hustle and bustle. I even wrote my first lyrics while I was sitting on Rugby station because I was so inspired being there.
Where did the love of words come from?
My dad was obsessed with poetry. In fact, he would read poetry to me every single night of the week. I couldn’t go to bed until my dad had sat me down in front of a poem and read it to me.
You left school at 14 and started work on the railways. Was that a dream come true for you?
Yes. In those days you would leave school at 14 and go straight to work doing a 45-hour week. My dad was in the aircraft industry and I was quite interested in planes but for me, it was always trains. So when I got offered this job with British Railways I jumped at it because I’ve always thought you have to do something that you love no matter how many hours you work.
What was it like leaving school at that tender age and going straight into a full-time job?
Schools don’t prepare you to go to work; you learn from the older people around you. One minute I'm putting my hand up to ask the teacher if I can go to the toilet, the next, I’m in a noisy factory asking the man in charge, Burt, I think he was called, 'excuse me sir, but can I go to the toilet?' He said: 'Don’t call me sir… you don’t ask, you just go but don’t be long.' Also, there was a point where I told this bloke I couldn’t read or write properly and he asked if I could do maths, which I could, and so he did the writing down and I did the adding up of the overtime. My philosophy in life is to form a team and surround yourself with people that can do the things you can’t. That’s what I did with Mike (Stock) and Matt (Aitken). They could do fantastic things I couldn’t and vice versa.
When did you develop your passion for music?
I was a chorister from aged five to 18. The songs we would sing were from The Ancient and Modern Hymn Book, but the problem was I couldn’t read. The choirmaster would play me the song and I would memorise it really quickly and then teach it to the other boys and girls. At the age of seven, I had an argument with the vicar about a particular hymn he had chosen as I thought it was rubbish and that nobody would sing it. He put me in my place and Sunday came, and sure enough, nobody was singing the hymn. Later, the vicar said to me: 'Waterman. You were right…from now on you’re choosing the hymns.' So every Friday night I would sit down with him and choose the hymns for the services.
When did you start your first business?
We had lots of weddings at the church and when I was 10d I realised there was money to be made from helping the grooms choose hymns and we would sing them. So I formed this little choir and I charged 10 bob and sixpence shared between the boys and 2/6d for me. There were a number of churches around the area too so I thought we could all get on our bikes and do the same thing for all the weddings in the area and be known as The Flying Choir. I got in touch with the local bike shop and arranged a deal where I could pay in weekly instalments for the six bikes for me and the lads and I would make a bit of money from each of the boys charging them interest for the bikes. That was my first business.
When did you start DJ-ing?
I was always playing the records at the church socials as I knew what new artists were up and coming by listening to the American Forces Network. In 1962, at the Matrix Ballroom in Coventry, I introduced the Beatles, as I was what you would call an announcer, which meant playing records before the acts came on and during the tea breaks. Finishing off with God Save The Queen – they didn’t have DJs then. The Beatles were phenomenal, they were the only ones that did two 45-minute sets.
How did your music career progress?
With the rise of radio in 1966/67 I built up a bit of a reputation and people started asking me what I thought about artists and mixes, which led me into A&R (artists and repertoire), the music industry sector responsible for scouting and development. I got a job with Magnet Records and signed Donna Summer and Chris Rea but I gained loads of weight and it all became too much for me, so I gave it all up and got a job mixing concrete on a building site, which certainly got me fit. But I missed the music business especially when I was hearing artists I’d signed on the radio. I bumped into an old pal of mine in the industry who offered me a consultancy job that eventually led to me forming a company with Pete Collins and signing Musical Youth who had a huge hit with Pass the Dutchie, as well as hits with Nik Kershaw. Pete wanted to do more rock acts but that wasn’t for me, so we parted ways and I then set up All Boys Music and PWL.
How did Stock, Aitken and Waterman begin?
Matt and Mike came in with a track they’d created but it wasn’t great and I suggested we could do better as a trio and so we put our names in a hat and came up with our company name: Stock, Aitken and Waterman. I already had enough work producing and mixing in the studio to keep us going for a little while. We had a hit with Divine, and then Hazel Dean, which brought us to the attention of Pete Burns from Dead Or Alive who was looking for producers for his band’s new material. They’d already had a top 30 hit so they brought us a few tracks in to work on and I knew it was Spin Me that would be the big one. You Spin Me Round (Like A Record) was our first number one. After that, we were inundated with bands that wanted us to produce them but we wanted to release songs we had written and produced, so I got us a loan for £3,0000 because we were so far in the red and we had our first self-penned international hit with Princess and Say I’m Your Number One in 1985.
Who were your favourite artists to work with?
Rick Astley, Donna Summer and Pete Burns
I have fond memories of the Palace nightclub in Blackpool in the late 1980s when you were filming The Hitman and Her (the television dance music programme hosted by Pete Waterman and Michaela Strachan). How did that come about?
I had a meeting with Granada Television, about an idea for a late-night live show where I would go around UK nightclubs playing music, with a female co-presenter. It was the first late-night live reality tv show. Wherever I go everybody from prime ministers to the members of the royal family mentions Hitman and Her.
Back in 2001, Pop Idol, the reality entertainment show that introduced Simon Cowell to TV audiences, burst onto our screens, with you as a judge. How did you get involved?
Back then I had the number one pop act – Steps – and Simon Cowell, who I had known for years, and I were invited to do Popstars, in Australia. We weren’t on the panel, we were there to look after the runners-up. We got two-thirds the way through and Simon said it wasn't good enough, that he had a better idea and did I want to work on it with him. Six months later, I was told where to be, and away we went.
What did Simon think of the 2008 talent show parody called Britain's Got the Pop Factor... and Possibly a New Celebrity Jesus Christ Soapstar Superstar Strictly on Ice you did with Peter Kay?
That was a bit of a problem for Simon really as he didn’t see the funny side but I thought it was hilarious. It’s the funniest thing I’ve ever done. I spoke to Peter recently and asked if he ever thought people would still be talking about it, especially the sketch with the three old ladies auditioning and me nearly choking with laughter. I still get people coming up to me saying that whenever they fancy a laugh they watch that spoof.
What’s your involvement in the music industry now?
Up until the pandemic I was doing a Saturday radio show for BBC radio WM but after Covid they didn’t really want anyone over 70. I also did a two-part documentary for Channel 5 recently about Stock Aitken and Waterman's music, which included some artists and songs people didn’t realise we were behind. I’m also in talks to do a new series with ITV so I’m still very much involved in the industry.
I Should Be So Lucky – The Stock Aitken Waterman Musical comes to Manchester Opera House in November, celebrating the music that you, Mike and Matt gave to us. What involvement did you have with this project?
For me, it’s still very much a working progress. I met Debbie Isitt, who’s the writer of the show, for the first time recently, so there’s still things to discuss.
How did the project Making Tracks come about?
I had a call from the Dean of Chester Cathedral, where they had a very successful Lego exhibition, but now wanted a model railway exhibition. I agreed to do it but Covid hit so we were delayed for 18 months before our first exhibition in 2021. It did really well, then2022's was phenomenal, and judging by the reception I’m getting from my live Sunday blog I think this next one is going to be huge. I wanted to make it relevant for all the family, especially kids, so we got together with sponsors including Hornby and this year's Making Tracks is 64-feet-long with 247 metres of track and four main loops. We have created a scale replica of Milton Keynes station and its seven platforms, along with 30 trains, so the kids will love it. It took a team of 15 of us six months to build it and is the biggest challenge we’ve done. All monies raised go to Chester Cathedral.
Making Tracks 3 is at Chester Cathedral from July 26 until September 2 every day except Sundays.
Admission £3, with proceeds going to Chester Cathedral.
Visitors can drive the trains on the layout via dedicated control tablets.
An exhibition of work by transport illustrator Tom Connell will also be on show
SAW's UK number-one hits
1985: You Spin Me Round (Like a Record), Dead or Alive
1987: Respectable, Mel and Kim
1987: Let It Be, Ferry Aid, charity single to raise money for the Zeebrugge Disaster Fund
1987: Never Gonna Give You Up, Rick Astley
1987: I Should Be So Lucky, Kylie Minogue
1988: Especially for You, Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan
1989: Too Many Broken Hearts, Jason Donovan
1989: Hand on Your Heart, Kylie Minogue
1989: Ferry Cross the Mersey, The Christians, Holly Johnson, Paul McCartney, Gerry Marsden and SAW, a cover of the Gerry and the Pacemakers' 1964 hit and charity single for victims of the Hillsborough disaster.
1989: Sealed with a Kiss, Jason Donovan
1989: You'll Never Stop Me Loving You, Sonia
1989: Do They Know It's Christmas, Band Aid II charity single
1990: Tears on My Pillow, Kylie Minogue
